Re: [webpages-l] GENEALOGY.COM says goodbye
At 12:11 AM 12/2/98 -0500, W. Fred Rump wrote:
On 30 Nov 98, at 20:40, Richard Heli wrote about Re: [webpages-l] GENEALOGY.COM says goodbye:
It does seem a bit abrupt. I am surprised that you do not seem to have sought the advice of the groups before making such a move?
I guess I was a bit prescient in my recent questions as to who owns what around here. I was afraid that some such precipitous action which would completely ignore the group as a whole and let individual predispositions and personal benefits take over instead. My fear was not directed at anyone in particular but rather at the concept of individual sponsorship rather than joint sponsorship and ownership. As we know such a relationship always depends on the gooid will of one or more individuals and the smallest pebble can derail the train. It is a dangerous situation which is why I was in favor of a societal arrangement where individuals can come and go but the whole will stay.
I agree with Rick that common courtesy would have been in order to 'discuss' this move. Even if it would have had no other outcome, it would have helped to organize an orderly transfer and no need for an abrupt cut-off to those who have been using genealogy.com for many years.
I did not pick up my mail until late tonight and was hit with 137 messages and this shock. I have not yet read other responses to the 'announcement' but my immediate suggestion would be to move our pages to rootsweb.com as surely the access bandwidth at genealogy.net will not be sufficient.
I don't think it is any of our business what the name was worth.
I am not sure I agree on this point. It depends on how much money changed hands. If it is a certain figure or below, I am fine with it as a just profit on securing the name and maintaining the server for these 4 years. On the other hand, if the figure is much above a certain number, then I feel rather betrayed. The name genealogy.com is a good one, but let's face it, that's only at best half the reason Broderbund wants it. Without a doubt the main reason is that it is linked to from every site in the known universe, from Cyndi's List which must have dozens of links to various points in it to every other genealogical site commercial or otherwise right down to all the thousands of myriad private family pages out there. Even though a lot of those links will no longer reach their original targets because they point to places within the hierarchy, you can bet that Broderbund is smart enough to make sure they work in terms of being places to sell product of interest to the audience that each link represents, especially now in this gift-giving season. And every one of those links exists not because of the name genealogy.com, but because of the work of all the poor volunteers who labored for long hours for absolutely nothing. I had earlier posted that I did not mind if Rainer were to use banner ads to cover costs to maintain his site. But this is different. To get out of the site altogether is quite a different matter. This whole event brings me up very short. I am in profound doubt whether to ever contribute again to any website which is not my own. I do think that there needs to continue to be a site in the USA. I am not sure it is rootsweb since they already have a lot of their own stuff and am not sure if they would be supportive of our similar and yet differently organized stuff. I would at any rate suggest that we try to create some structure, perhaps a non-profit foundation, perhaps something else, to try ensure that there is an ongoing Structure which can always keep things going regardless of whether or not some individuals may wish to opt out. Rick
Obviously enough to cause this change. Money still rules and it is a normal business process to cash in when it passes our doorstep. Again I only come back to common courtesy which one normally expects even in a business relationship.
Fred
The Rumps at Pelican Lake Motorcoach Resort 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114-9418 941-775-7838 PS Genealogists live in the past lane
On 2 Dec 98, at 15:27, Richard Heli wrote about Re: [webpages-l] GENEALOGY.COM says goodbye:
I don't think it is any of our business what the name was worth.
I am not sure I agree on this point. It depends on how much money changed hands. If it is a certain figure or below, I am fine with it as a just profit on securing the name and maintaining the server for these 4 years. On the other hand, if the figure is much above a certain number, then I feel rather betrayed.
Oh hey! I did not say I did not feel betrayed. That is a whole other matter. I had thought we were all friends and friends don't screw each other over like this. It should remind us though that money tests true friendship more than anything else. How many of us have seen this even in intra-family relationships at inheritance time? My point was that legally and morally they owned the name. They had aperfect right to sell it. We knew and acknowledged that all along. It is only in the manner of the transaction where they stepped onto every one of our combined toes. The silly excuses and the question as to whom they could trust was persoanlly insulting to me. I value my friendship and my trust like nothing else. To me this goes beyond money.
The name genealogy.com is a good one, but let's face it, that's <snip> And every one of those links exists not because of the name genealogy.com, but because of the work of all the poor volunteers who labored for long hours for absolutely nothing.
True, but .... genealogy.com would be just as valuable without the countless hours spent on developing it. FTM has a much busier and much, much bigger site presence then we've ever had or ever will have. Let's not forget that we are comparing a fly with an elephant. No matter how highly we value our pages we still only had a small number of hits compared to Broderbund and Family Treemaker etc. I think they simply wanted the name and did not consider all the benefits of old URLs hanging around. If I were the major player in genealogy data and programs I would certainly give an arm and a leg for the name genealogy.com. I think that's exactly what they did.
I had earlier posted that I did not mind if Rainer were to use banner ads to cover costs to maintain his site. But this is different. To get out of the site altogether is quite a different matter.
Sure. I don't think we disagree on that point.
This whole event brings me up very short. I am in profound doubt whether to ever contribute again to any website which is not my own.
You are rightly upset but consider that nothing is really lost. We are all still together and simply need to learn something from the experience. In the business world we incorporate to assure life beyond a particular person's whims. There are laws to protect that which a corporation owns. All this exists for a reason and is based upon the human experience.
I do think that there needs to continue to be a site in the USA. I am not sure it is rootsweb since they already have a lot of their own stuff and am not sure if they would be supportive of our similar and yet differently organized stuff.
Rootsweb is the only non-commercial but solidly supported genealogy center. They should not be seen as 'they'. The system and thought behind the concept is to organize internet genealogy with support from the users. I like that idea and we need to remember that the people behind that system are all like us except that 'their' genealogy is not restricted to German roots. They have organized the same kind of teams and volunteer staff as we have but they have gotten much bigger, faster as these things go in the US. I would be for an alias site without the name genealogy but with the name of what we really do: GermanRoots.org. To me both the genealogy.com and net names have always been much too broad for what we do. I would even go so far as to sponsor a nice fast server just for ourselves on their site if they would admin it as needed and give us some needed bandwidth. I would want to consensus on this though as I don't like to do anything on my own. I know Rainer would be against this but I also hear the various voices which worry about some future collapse of genealogy.net. Personally I don't think it is economically feasable to have a real non-commercial genealogy site sitting as the main server in Germany. It is the communications costs which kill the idea. Selling space and earning some funding might help with the immediate small systems costs but as the demand will grow so will the costs. If the access will remain as slow as it is with 'waiting for reply as the norm, people will not use the site anyway. Fast access is very imortant for a site to become successful.
I would at any rate suggest that we try to create some structure, perhaps a non-profit foundation, perhaps something else, to try ensure that there is an ongoing Structure which can always keep things going regardless of whether or not some individuals may wish to opt out.
We were/are very much on the road to such a structure. It can work if the German language thing is left optional. By necessity I can understand a preponderance of German in a German genealogical society but I would never participate in anything were it would be the only language permissable. Languages on the internet need to be kept optional even in societies or clubs which operate in that environment. For me it is just so much faster, quicker and simpler to write in English and I feel everybody can get the drift of a discussion in either language anyway. So, if any of this makes sense to anybody, say something. Otherwise the subject will die and we will just muddle along from one crisis to another. Fred The Rumps at Pelican Lake Motorcoach Resort 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114-9418 941-775-7838 PS Genealogists live in the past lane
participants (2)
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Richard Heli
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W. Fred Rump